Comments for 22 with 7 Years of PCOS - It's Time to Get a Grip

Comments for
22 with 7 Years of PCOS - It's Time to Get a Grip

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Sep 20, 2008
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Depresson & PCOS Related to Brain Dysfunction?
by: Editor's Comments

I completely agree that depression is not a lack of willpower, and that it can be truly debilitating.

The issue remains of what to do about it.

It seems to me the first thing to do is try to understand what it is.

I don't pretend to know much about depression. I can can only say that it appears to be a multi-faceted disorder of the limbic/hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenocortical system in the brain. Call it HPA for short.

The HPA system is influenced by factors that either stimulate it or imhibit it, i.e., make it "hyper" or "hypo".

I imagine there are 20-30 factors that influence the HPA. I'll just mention one of them here.

It is chronic stress, which increases cortisol levels. Increased cortisol levels have an utterly profound effect on the HPA.

It's interesting to note that both depression and PCOS involve a disordered HPA. And in both cases, chronically increased cortisol plays a pivotal role.

When you look at cortisol, there are dozens of factors that can elevate it.

What we have is a very complex feedback loop system where every endogenous and exogenous factor and every hormone or other signalling molecule and every organ and system in the body has an influence.

Getting back to cortisol. Reducing stressors should reduce cortisol output. We're talking about a lot more than a job you don't like or that your partner is cheating on you.

We also talking about stress from electromagnetic radiation, chemical pollution, chronic gut infection, allergies, lack of sleep, chronic inflammation, you name it.

It's not too hard to imagine that if chronic stress can be reduced and thus cortisol production reduced, that the HPA system would move closer to an optimal state and thus the depression and other PCOS symptoms would be alleviated to some extent.

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Sep 20, 2008
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Submitted by: Editor's Comments

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I completely agree that depression is not a lack of willpower, and that it can be truly debilitating. The issue remains of what to do about it. It seems to me the first thing to do is try to understand what it is. I don't pretend to know much about depression. I can can only say that it appears to be a multi-faceted disorder of the limbic/hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenocortical system in the brain. Call it HPA for short. The HPA system is influenced by factors that either stimulate it or imhibit it, i.e., make it "hyper" or "hypo". I imagine there are 20-30 factors that influence the HPA. I'll just mention one of them here. It is chronic stress, which increases cortisol levels. Increased cortisol levels have an utterly profound effect on the HPA. It's interesting to note that both depression and PCOS involve a disordered HPA. And in both cases, chronically increased cortisol plays a pivotal role. When you look at cortisol, there are dozens of factors that can elevate it. What we have is a very complex feedback loop system where every endogenous and exogenous factor and every hormone or other signalling molecule and every organ and system in the body has an influence. Getting back to cortisol. Reducing stressors should reduce cortisol output. We're talking about a lot more than a job you don't like or that your partner is cheating on you. We also talking about stress from electromagnetic radiation, chemical pollution, chronic gut infection, allergies, lack of sleep, chronic inflammation, you name it. It's not too hard to imagine that if chronic stress can be reduced and thus cortisol production reduced, that the HPA system would move closer to an optimal state and thus the depression and other PCOS symptoms would be alleviated to some extent.

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Sep 19, 2008
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You're not alone...
by: Nicole

So many women with PCOS suffer from depression and anxiety. You are not alone. I think it's partly due to hormonal imbalances and just dealing with the symptoms that go with having PCOS. It's true that you have to take some responsibilty for your health by starting to eat right and exercise, but sometimes this is not enough for some. Genetics can come into play too. There are some botanicals and nutrients that can be helpful as well in reversing PCOS. www.pcosupport.org and pcos.insulitelabs.com can help too.

Sep 18, 2008
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Re Harsh
by: SD

Thank you for your reply. Let me first address your comment on PCOS being a modern disease. Firstly, it is one of the most under-diagnosed diseases in the 21st century. Many doctors are utterly convinced of their own superiority and assume women lie about their diet and exercise. I only discovered my own PCOS after endless internet searchings. I went to a endocrinologist who recommended WLS surgery. When I challenged him on this (dangers, possibility of success etc.), he washed his hands of me. Many modern doctors treat women this way, in my experience. Check out http://fathealth.wordpress.com/ for more accounts of fat women's experience of the medical profession. The "I know best" is rife and is an insult to our intelligence. To be clear, I am not attacking you, I am merely saying that many doctors do not listen or believe their female patients. I am, therefore, a little skeptical of your assertion that it is in fact a modern disease. However you are the expert. I only have the disease.

I follow your book as closely as I can within what is available and what I can afford and it is helpful. Thank you.

As for depression, that's a difficult one. You say this of your friend:

"His unhappy, depressed condition is all that he knows. So, I feel quite sad for him. I feel sad for anyone who is emotionally or intellectually or physically "stuck" in their life"

As someone who does suffer from depression, I know that it's not a lack of will on the part of your friend but a lack of ability. It is impossible for those who have never had depression to understanding how it is. But I have written a number of blog posts on the subject. Maybe they might help you to understand what your friend is going through and the writer of the letter. Depression is extremely debilitating. Because people use the word to describe feeling down, those who suffer from the condition are perceived as lazy or self indulgent. I generalise of course. Have a read, if you want. One of my posts is here - http://nothoughtcontrol.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/my-depression/

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Sep 18, 2008
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Submitted by: SD

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Thank you for your reply. Let me first address your comment on PCOS being a modern disease. Firstly, it is one of the most under-diagnosed diseases in the 21st century. Many doctors are utterly convinced of their own superiority and assume women lie about their diet and exercise. I only discovered my own PCOS after endless internet searchings. I went to a endocrinologist who recommended WLS surgery. When I challenged him on this (dangers, possibility of success etc.), he washed his hands of me. Many modern doctors treat women this way, in my experience. Check out http://fathealth.wordpress.com/ for more accounts of fat women's experience of the medical profession. The "I know best" is rife and is an insult to our intelligence. To be clear, I am not attacking you, I am merely saying that many doctors do not listen or believe their female patients. I am, therefore, a little skeptical of your assertion that it is in fact a modern disease. However you are the expert. I only have the disease. I follow your book as closely as I can within what is available and what I can afford and it is helpful. Thank you. As for depression, that's a difficult one. You say this of your friend: "His unhappy, depressed condition is all that he knows. So, I feel quite sad for him. I feel sad for anyone who is emotionally or intellectually or physically "stuck" in their life" As someone who does suffer from depression, I know that it's not a lack of will on the part of your friend but a lack of ability. It is impossible for those who have never had depression to understanding how it is. But I have written a number of blog posts on the subject. Maybe they might help you to understand what your friend is going through and the writer of the letter. Depression is extremely debilitating. Because people use the word to describe feeling down, those who suffer from the condition are perceived as lazy or self indulgent. I generalise of course. Have a read, if you want. One of my posts is here - http://nothoughtcontrol.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/my-depression/

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Sep 17, 2008
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Apologies, I was too harsh
by: Editor's Comments

Thanks to SD for her excellent observations.

I was much too harsh and I sincerely apologize. I made the comments too quickly, without thinking it all through and speaking in a softer tone.

Even worse, I'm a male! ;-) Maybe that explains my apparent lack of empathy.

I haven't had depression myself, so I can't fully know something I haven't experienced. However, I've observed many who are depressed and had a relative who committed suicide from depression.

I understand that depression can be a disabling condition.

I guess the question in my mind is: if a person is depressed, what if anything, can that person do to relieve it? Or should the person just accept the status quo for the rest of her life?

One of my best friends is depressed. We have had literally hundreds of intimate talks over the past ten years. He says he wants to change but he doesn't. His behavior and relationship and health problems are exactly the same today as they were ten years ago. His "story", which is mostjly complaints about people and things in his environment, is the same as it was ten years ago and has been repeated to me hundreds of times.

I don't blame him. I don't criticize him. But I do offer suggestions and encouragement. And, yes, I have confronted him on occasions and been a bit harsh. He appreciates my honesty even though it's uncomfortable. Yet he remains unchanged.

His unhappy, depressed condition is all that he knows.

So, I feel quite sad for him. I feel sad for anyone who is emotionally or intellectually or physically "stuck" in their life.

When I give suggestions to Kylie, I was trying to give her some ladder rungs to cling onto and get a grip so she can start climbing the ladder to better health. As her PCOS diminishes through better health practices, her depression should also lift.

I could have said nothing. But I took a risk and tried to be helpful. I failed to be as gentle as I could have been.

As for the difficulty of the diet in the PCOS diet book, I agree with your criticism. The foods and diet we suggest are expensive and difficult to find in some areas. The reason we had so much difficulty is that most foods are contaminated and adulterated, so we did not recommend them. Or they are so heavily processed that they are unsuitable for building health.

Please bear in mind that PCOS is a "modern day disease". You might ask yourself why is PCOS such an epidemic today? It was almost unheard of until early in the 20th century. There's no question that our modern-day diet is one big reason there is so much PCOS today.

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Sep 17, 2008
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Submitted by: Editor's Comments

Title

Comment
Thanks to SD for her excellent observations. I was much too harsh and I sincerely apologize. I made the comments too quickly, without thinking it all through and speaking in a softer tone. Even worse, I'm a male! ;-) Maybe that explains my apparent lack of empathy. I haven't had depression myself, so I can't fully know something I haven't experienced. However, I've observed many who are depressed and had a relative who committed suicide from depression. I understand that depression can be a disabling condition. I guess the question in my mind is: if a person is depressed, what if anything, can that person do to relieve it? Or should the person just accept the status quo for the rest of her life? One of my best friends is depressed. We have had literally hundreds of intimate talks over the past ten years. He says he wants to change but he doesn't. His behavior and relationship and health problems are exactly the same today as they were ten years ago. His "story", which is mostjly complaints about people and things in his environment, is the same as it was ten years ago and has been repeated to me hundreds of times. I don't blame him. I don't criticize him. But I do offer suggestions and encouragement. And, yes, I have confronted him on occasions and been a bit harsh. He appreciates my honesty even though it's uncomfortable. Yet he remains unchanged. His unhappy, depressed condition is all that he knows. So, I feel quite sad for him. I feel sad for anyone who is emotionally or intellectually or physically "stuck" in their life. When I give suggestions to Kylie, I was trying to give her some ladder rungs to cling onto and get a grip so she can start climbing the ladder to better health. As her PCOS diminishes through better health practices, her depression should also lift. I could have said nothing. But I took a risk and tried to be helpful. I failed to be as gentle as I could have been. As for the difficulty of the diet in the PCOS diet book, I agree with your criticism. The foods and diet we suggest are expensive and difficult to find in some areas. The reason we had so much difficulty is that most foods are contaminated and adulterated, so we did not recommend them. Or they are so heavily processed that they are unsuitable for building health. Please bear in mind that PCOS is a "modern day disease". You might ask yourself why is PCOS such an epidemic today? It was almost unheard of until early in the 20th century. There's no question that our modern-day diet is one big reason there is so much PCOS today.

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Sep 16, 2008
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Harsh - editor
by: SD

I agree with the health advice - I have PCOS myself but your attitude was harsh, Editor. The woman who wrote says that she suffers from depression and you just told her to please stfu and stop whining. Do you know what depression is? How could you be so cruel?

I have your book. I follow your book sometimes. Why not religiously you might ask? Well I am living in a country where it is nigh on impossible to get some of the staples. Also it's expensive. You can berate people for not following your diet but the simple fact is that it is not always possible through location or lack of means.

Don't put your privilege on others

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